Thursday, November 02, 2006
The question I am on is:
If you think people who believe in a different religion are definitely going to Hell, shouldn't you try to save them?
I've been following a recurring debate between a couple of lay Christians and a Jewish scholar on an Israeli website. A lot of it is pretty dull, and the two Christians don't seem to trust that any of us have Bibles to look at because they include the text of all their scriptural references. What it boils down to is a list of New Testament references from one side proving that the Messiah has already been here, and references from the Old and New Testaments in reply, chosen to prove that he has not.
One point that seems obvious to me is that converting non-Christians by citing the New Testament is like converting non-Muslims by quoting the Qur'an. You have to be able to understand where the other side is coming from, and this brand of Christian has trouble with that.
I admit that I have read only a little of what either side has posted. Based on that little bit, though, I think the Jews have won this particular argument. This has nothing to do with what either faith actually believes, and everything to do with the way these individuals present their case. According to the one who the others all call the "Rabbi," G-d wants us to keep studying, doing good and watching for the mashiach who is still to come. The other side presents the whole deal as being settled, with the standard "Jesus died for our sins" and all that is required is to believe in him.
It's the settled part that bothers me. Which prescription seems more hopeful, the one that says we have the responsibility of improving ourselves and the world around us, or the one that says it has already been done and all we can do is indulge in passive faith? I don't accept this description of what it means to be a Christian, and I certainly don't think faith should be passive. That's not faith anyway, it is fatalism. It seems to me that those who try to provide a "light to the nations" by boring everyone with long repetitive harangues about Jesus are the ones that are missing the point. They need to throw down their fatalism and provide a light through their actions.
Ultimately, what religious discussions require from both sides is personal humility. I hear that was a biggie for Jesus, too.
I've been following a recurring debate between a couple of lay Christians and a Jewish scholar on an Israeli website. A lot of it is pretty dull, and the two Christians don't seem to trust that any of us have Bibles to look at because they include the text of all their scriptural references. What it boils down to is a list of New Testament references from one side proving that the Messiah has already been here, and references from the Old and New Testaments in reply, chosen to prove that he has not.
One point that seems obvious to me is that converting non-Christians by citing the New Testament is like converting non-Muslims by quoting the Qur'an. You have to be able to understand where the other side is coming from, and this brand of Christian has trouble with that.
I admit that I have read only a little of what either side has posted. Based on that little bit, though, I think the Jews have won this particular argument. This has nothing to do with what either faith actually believes, and everything to do with the way these individuals present their case. According to the one who the others all call the "Rabbi," G-d wants us to keep studying, doing good and watching for the mashiach who is still to come. The other side presents the whole deal as being settled, with the standard "Jesus died for our sins" and all that is required is to believe in him.
It's the settled part that bothers me. Which prescription seems more hopeful, the one that says we have the responsibility of improving ourselves and the world around us, or the one that says it has already been done and all we can do is indulge in passive faith? I don't accept this description of what it means to be a Christian, and I certainly don't think faith should be passive. That's not faith anyway, it is fatalism. It seems to me that those who try to provide a "light to the nations" by boring everyone with long repetitive harangues about Jesus are the ones that are missing the point. They need to throw down their fatalism and provide a light through their actions.
Ultimately, what religious discussions require from both sides is personal humility. I hear that was a biggie for Jesus, too.
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At the age where I am, there is a lot of anguish by people worrying about the future. Not sleeping well because they have so much on their minds. Concern about whether they have done enough. Our current pastor is not from the sort of fatalistic Presbyterian background (that I am) but is a Congregationalist (UCC). He worries.
I find it amazing to realize how different each of us sees the world and our place in it. Not based on Hebrew bible or Christian bible, but just whatever the emphasis was in the home where we grew up. As you know, the Bagby faith was "trust in God, and work." Sort of serious, Calvinistic, no fun. But the Eakins were like that too, and yet Mother was pretty silly (though she felt guilty about it). Bruce didnt join in all the Jewish activities around him - nor did his family - but both of us think it is important to expose kids to all that and talk about it.
But I sure dont lie awake nights worrying. Should I?
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I find it amazing to realize how different each of us sees the world and our place in it. Not based on Hebrew bible or Christian bible, but just whatever the emphasis was in the home where we grew up. As you know, the Bagby faith was "trust in God, and work." Sort of serious, Calvinistic, no fun. But the Eakins were like that too, and yet Mother was pretty silly (though she felt guilty about it). Bruce didnt join in all the Jewish activities around him - nor did his family - but both of us think it is important to expose kids to all that and talk about it.
But I sure dont lie awake nights worrying. Should I?
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: 12:42 PM
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